#95

Susan Rogers: From Prince to Neuroscientist

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Susan Rogers is an American professor, sound engineer, and record producer best known for her work with Prince, including on his iconic albums Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, Parade, Sign o’ the Times, and The Black Album. She also worked as a producer and sound engineer for artists such as  David Byrne, Barenaked Ladies and Tricky.

Rogers is a Professor of Music Production and Engineering at Berklee College of Music. She holds a doctorate of psychology from McGill University, where she studied music cognition and psychoacoustics. Her focus is on auditory memory, the perception of musical signals, and the influence of musical training on auditory development.

In her book ‘This Is What It Sounds Like’, co-written with neuroscientist Ogi Ogas and released in 2022, she distils her lifetime of experience as a producer and professor to present a new theory of listening for everyday music fans, helping readers identify their own musical identity and discover what the music we love says about the people we are.

In 2000, Susan decided to leave the music business to pursue a career in academia. She earned her doctorate in music cognition and psychoacoustics from McGill University in 2010 and is currently the director of the Berklee Music Perception and Cognition Laboratory, as well as being an associate professor at Berklee.

Summary

02:27 The role of a record producer

• It is akin to that of a director in a film, shaping the overarching story and mood of a project
• A producer works with raw materials such as songs and artists, aiming to create a product that appeals to a wide audience while balancing artistic expression.
• Their strengths can range from arranging songs to having industry connections.
• Susan focuses on nurturing the artist’s ideas and suggesting different directions for the music.
• The aim is to create an emotional connection between the music and the listener.

05:36 Susan’s core principle as a producer

• She has been deeply passionate about music since childhood
• Her superpower lies in her ability to connect emotionally with music and articulate her responses to it.
• Understanding the listener profile

06:47 Navigating artistic disagreements

• Balance how to push artists to excel without damaging their confidence.
• Continuously evaluate the music’s effectiveness, offer feedback and suggest solutions to enhance its impact on listeners.
• Commercial success is a primary goal, requiring tough decisions and strategic choices.
• Artists like David Byrne, Talking Heads, and Prince show the balance between artistic integrity and commercial viability.
• Prince’s extensive vault of unreleased material demonstrates his meticulous approach to selecting songs.
• Jimi Hendrix’s dedication to his craft, even carrying his guitar from room to room, reflects a similar devotion to musical exploration and expression.

13:28 What’s that dynamic like trying to find that new voice or that new style within the studio?

• Lack of sufficient preproduction can lead to challenging album projects
• Producer auditions, akin to blind dates, assess the compatibility and alignment of goals between the producer and the artist or band.
• Incompatible expectations or strengths discovered during preproduction may prompt the termination of contracts before significant investment.
• Challenging albums can arise from various factors,but they often yield some of the best work.
• Working with Geggy Tah was challenging due to the constant flow of creative ideas from Tommy Jordan.
• Barenaked Ladies’ project was challenging due to tight time constraints between projects, necessitating rapid and decisive work.
• Despite the challenges, Susan Rogers achieved a number one single with Barenaked Ladies, which continues to generate royalties even decades later.

16:06 The interplay between a song’s instrumentation and its lyrics

• The producer assesses the strengths and weaknesses of a song, including chord progression, melody, and lyrics.
• When working with exceptional lyricists like Bob Dylan or Lana Del Rey, the producer aims to frame the vocals to highlight the lyrics.
• In cases where lyrics are less prominent, the weight of the arrangement shifts to elements like rhythm, tempo, and instrumentation.
• For singer-songwriters, where lyrics hold significance, the challenge lies in arranging the instrumentation to complement and enhance the lyrical narrative.
• The producer acts as a director, arranging components to create a cohesive and impactful musical story, akin to making a film.
• Bruce Springsteen’s emphasis on becoming a good lyricist highlights the importance of compensating for weaknesses and leveraging strengths.

21:18 The best record producers of the last 75 years

• George Martin, Gus Dudgeon, Sam Phillips, and Rick Hall are celebrated producers known for understanding and capitalising on artists’ strengths.
• Gus Dudgeon notably worked with Elton John, achieving significant commercial success.
• Sam Phillips, the founder of Sun Records, played a pivotal role in launching the careers of legendary artists like Johnny Cash, Elvis Presley, and Roy Orbison.
• Rick Hall, known for his work at Fame Studios in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, pushed musicians to deliver exceptional performances, contributing to the success of artists like Aretha Franklin and Percy Sledge.
• While Rick Hall focused on Southern soul music, Sam Phillips operated in Memphis, part of the Golden Triangle alongside Nashville and Muscle Shoals, crucial in the development of early rock music.

25:18 Digital versus analogue

• Digital technology can compensate for weak performance abilities by correcting tuning and timing issues – but it cannot enhance artistic ideas.
• Analogue recordings capture performances authentically, preserving the true capabilities of musicians.
• Computers lack the creativity and depth of human musicianship and artistic expression.
• The introduction of new technology, such as AI, will serve as another tool in the creative process.
• Previous technological advancements, like drum machines and synthesizers, didn’t replace traditional musicians but expanded the possibilities in music production.
• Human creativity involves tapping into subconscious circuits.

32:14 Research on the powers of boredom

• Boredom can lead to daydreaming, which in turn fosters creativity.
• People have little time for boredom or daydreaming as they are constantly engaged in various activities.
• Daydreaming and mind wandering are essential for creative thought, allowing the brain to explore new ideas without inhibitions.
• Creative individuals are better at letting go of mental barriers and allowing their minds to wander freely.
• While focus is crucial for creativity, creative individuals know when to switch between inspiration and craftsmanship.

34:49 Sampling, legal and compensation structure

• Ownership of ideas is a challenging topic, influenced by personal experiences and cultural norms.
• Prince had a strong stance against anyone stealing or monetising his artistry.
• In the 1950s, it was common for artists to imitate others’ songs without shame, reflecting cultural norms.
• Susan Rogers believes in a rigid stance against plagiarism in art.
• Prince was known for financially supporting struggling artists.

40:03 What was it like collaborating with Prince?

• Collaborating with Prince was limited artistically; he mainly needed assistance to facilitate his ideas.
• Susan had to learn his unique sound, which was challenging but eventually became second nature.
• Prince’s persona of aloofness was deliberately crafted to protect his artistry and personal boundaries.
• Despite his public image, in private, Prince was warm, funny, and intelligent, but he maintained strong boundaries due to his rapid rise to fame and the need to protect himself from intrusions.

49:37 Learning from Prince as an artist and individual

• The first lesson was in order to succeed in the music industry, one must make sacrifices, including social aspects of life, such as relationships and family.
• The art of arranging music, emphasising that any instrument should be capable of being the loudest in the mix.
• Prince’s approach to music was like a kaleidoscope – allowing rotation to create different musical pictures, unlike the pyramidal structure typical for most artists.
• The rhythm section should stand alone and sound like a record.
• The importance of fixing any imperfections in music to avoid haunting regrets later.
• Despite being perceived as a perfectionist, Prince was simply exceptionally skilled at what he did.
• Susan Rogers played a role in collecting and cataloguing Prince’s vast music output, known as The Vault, starting in 1983.
• She meticulously gathered tapes from various recording studios and even requested masters from Warner Brothers, ensuring all of Prince’s music was accounted for.
• The process of collecting and cataloguing Prince’s music became more organised with the advent of early computer technology.
• The Universal Music Group’s fire prompted Prince to establish a vault at Paisley Park Studios to securely house his music collection for the rest of his life.

54:54 The relationship between music and the listener’s mind

• Ogi Ogas is a professional co-author who proposed writing a book on music together.
• Susan initially declined due to feeling inadequate as a non-musician but suggested focusing on music listening instead, due to her experience as a professional listener.
• The book explores the private journey into one’s psyche accompanied by music and how it activates circuits in the brain related to self-awareness and consciousness.
• Music listening allows individuals to tap into their unique musical selves, reflecting different aspects of their personalities.
• People enjoy a broad range of music for various reasons, such as rhythm, lyrics, or sound design.

56:51 Our brain’s natural response to the seven key dimensions of any song

• Music therapists should recognise the individuality of music-listening brains, understanding that no two listeners are exactly alike.
• Music only fulfills its purpose when consumed and listened to, much like how food becomes food when eaten.
• Each person’s musical taste reflects their unique identity, similar to characteristics like hair colour or height, and should be embraced without competitiveness or snobbery.
• Authenticity in music refers to the depth and sincerity of the performance, resonating with listeners on a personal level.
• Some listeners value technical perfection, while others prefer performances with emotional depth, often described as “music from the neck down.”
• Personal preferences vary, with some preferring passionate performances over technically flawless ones, highlighting the diversity of listeners’ tastes and perceptions.

01:01:39 The role of melody in music

• Our sense of pitch perception develops before birth, as we can hear voices and learn how pitch changes convey emotions and instructions.
• Melody familiarity often comes from melodies composed in our native language, but we can still enjoy music in languages we don’t speak.
• Rhythm has a unifying power across different cultures and social contexts, offering psychological and emotional benefits, especially when experienced collectively.
• Rhythm is one of the first musical behaviours observed in young children, who instinctively try to join in with the beat.
• Synchronizing our movements with others through rhythm creates a sense of unity and belonging, fostering feelings of safety and connection within a group.

Links mentioned: 

This Is What It Sounds Like